Dear all,
Ukraine supports ENOG dissolving with splitting it to Russian NOG and Central European NOG.
Kind regards from Kyiv, Oksana Prykhodko, director of iNGO European Media Platform, Ukraine
On Mar 6, 2022, at 10:36 AM, Oksana Prykhodko sana.pryhod@gmail.com wrote: Ukraine supports ENOG dissolving with splitting it to Russian NOG and Central European NOG.
That seems a reasonable way to move forward, though I suggest that it would be useful to find a name that was inclusive of the Central Asian countries.
-Bill
On 6 Mar 2022, at 12:16, Bill Woodcock woody@pch.net wrote:
On Mar 6, 2022, at 10:36 AM, Oksana Prykhodko sana.pryhod@gmail.com wrote: Ukraine supports ENOG dissolving with splitting it to Russian NOG and Central European NOG.
That seems a reasonable way to move forward, though I suggest that it would be useful to find a name that was inclusive of the Central Asian countries.
It is way more appropriate for those countries to form their own organisation.
There never was a ENOG meeting father then Caucasus.
I am not sure that Ukraine can consider itself a Northern Balkan country. I also do not know why there is a PLNOG, CSNOG, but no UANOG.
Except there is. It is a sleepy mailing list with lots of community members on it. We can organise UANOG to be a forum of Ukrainian ISP, IX, CDNs, Hosting and domain registry providers, and such. Should we?
— dk@farm.org mailto:dk@farm.org (personal email, no affiliation.)
There is UANOG. It never gathered as a face-to-face meeting, but it is alive as a mailing list during like last 20 years... I do believe that it can be augmented with meetings, why not? But also I do believe that horizontal interaction between different NOGs in similar countries could be really profitable, and here CENOG can help as an umbrella. Not substitution for the national NOGs, but a mechanism providing their interaction between each other.
On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 5:04 PM Dmitry Kohmanyuk dk@farm.org wrote:
On 6 Mar 2022, at 12:16, Bill Woodcock woody@pch.net wrote:
On Mar 6, 2022, at 10:36 AM, Oksana Prykhodko sana.pryhod@gmail.com wrote: Ukraine supports ENOG dissolving with splitting it to Russian NOG and Central European NOG.
That seems a reasonable way to move forward, though I suggest that it would be useful to find a name that was inclusive of the Central Asian countries.
It is way more appropriate for those countries to form their own organisation.
There never was a ENOG meeting father then Caucasus.
I am not sure that Ukraine can consider itself a Northern Balkan country. I also do not know why there is a PLNOG, CSNOG, but no UANOG.
Except there is. It is a sleepy mailing list with lots of community members on it. We can organise UANOG to be a forum of Ukrainian ISP, IX, CDNs, Hosting and domain registry providers, and such. Should we?
— dk@farm.org (personal email, no affiliation.) _______________________________________________ discuss mailing list discuss@enog.org https://lists.enog.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Hello,
On 10/03/2022 22:14, Alex Semenyaka wrote:
There is UANOG. It never gathered as a face-to-face meeting, but it is alive as a mailing list during like last 20 years... I do believe that it can be augmented with meetings, why not?
While I'm not Ukrainian, I say you definitely should have local NOG meetings too. Nothing makes local IXPs and ISPs grow more than meeting the others in person. Regional NOG meetings have their place and purpose, but local NOGs are possibly even more important.
But also I do believe that horizontal interaction between different NOGs in similar countries could be really profitable, and here CENOG can help as an umbrella. Not substitution for the national NOGs, but a mechanism providing their interaction between each other.
RIPE has the nog-org mailing list for this purpose:
https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/nog-org
RIPE is also organising an open house for NOG organisers in April:
https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-open-house-org...
I think the best way forward is to take a little bit of a breather, maybe a year or two, and use that time to create new connections with other NOGs and rekindle old ones.
When the dust has settled we should rethink what we want and what we need. Maybe it's ENOG, maybe it's CENOG, maybe it's something else - time will tell. But making hasty decisions right now doesn't seem like a good idea in the long run.
I am from Finland, why am I here?
Well ... I'm part of the team that runs NOG meetings in Finland, and some years ago RIPE told me to join this mailing list to advertise our events. I was also planning to propose a bid to host an ENOG meeting in Finland, but it seems that's not going to happen now.
Anyway, we are planning our next nog.fi meeting on Wednesday June 15th in Tampere, Finland. As our plans mature, there will be more and more information at our web site:
We live in uncertain times, and there are still so many factors that can force us to cancel the event, but I'm trying not to dwell on that.
Best Regards,
Hi Aleksi!
I am 100% sure that we in Ukraine will have a normal face-to-face NOG meeting right after the war.
But regional coordination is also a thing, so the idea of CENOG looks really promising to me. Not as a separate big shiny NOG (at least, at the beginning), but exactly as a coordination instrument.
On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 8:05 AM Aleksi Suhonen enog-2022@ssd.axu.tm wrote:
Hello,
On 10/03/2022 22:14, Alex Semenyaka wrote:
There is UANOG. It never gathered as a face-to-face meeting, but it is alive as a mailing list during like last 20 years... I do believe that it can be augmented with meetings, why not?
While I'm not Ukrainian, I say you definitely should have local NOG meetings too. Nothing makes local IXPs and ISPs grow more than meeting the others in person. Regional NOG meetings have their place and purpose, but local NOGs are possibly even more important.
But also I do believe that horizontal interaction between different NOGs in similar countries could be really profitable, and here CENOG can help as an umbrella. Not substitution for the national NOGs, but a mechanism providing their interaction between each other.
RIPE has the nog-org mailing list for this purpose:
https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/nog-org
RIPE is also organising an open house for NOG organisers in April:
https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-open-house-org...
I think the best way forward is to take a little bit of a breather, maybe a year or two, and use that time to create new connections with other NOGs and rekindle old ones.
When the dust has settled we should rethink what we want and what we need. Maybe it's ENOG, maybe it's CENOG, maybe it's something else - time will tell. But making hasty decisions right now doesn't seem like a good idea in the long run.
I am from Finland, why am I here?
Well ... I'm part of the team that runs NOG meetings in Finland, and some years ago RIPE told me to join this mailing list to advertise our events. I was also planning to propose a bid to host an ENOG meeting in Finland, but it seems that's not going to happen now.
Anyway, we are planning our next nog.fi meeting on Wednesday June 15th in Tampere, Finland. As our plans mature, there will be more and more information at our web site:
We live in uncertain times, and there are still so many factors that can force us to cancel the event, but I'm trying not to dwell on that.
Best Regards,
-- Aleksi Suhonen
() ascii ribbon campaign /\ support plain text e-mail
discuss mailing list discuss@enog.org https://lists.enog.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Hi, Aleks and Aleksi and all!
At the time of changes, it is very important to keep communication alive, especially when we see so many new threats for the networks each day.
We need to keep in mind that NOG is an "informal forum that bring together network operators, network engineers and other technical professionals to discuss matters relating to routing, network security, peering and interconnection, and other operational Internet issues". If we keep this principle, it can be called CENOG, ENOG or any other way, if we bring there politics-it will not work in any way.
ENOG was providing an opportunity to discuss the abovementioned matters for mainly Russian speaking audience from many countries in Eurasian region (what is Eurasia-formally it is even larger, than RIPE NCC region is). Well, most of the participants were from Russia, a lot of from Ukraine, but also people from Czech Republic, Central Asia, Caucasus, Eastern and Western Europe were participating, putting their bits there.
So I would suggest to keep the ENOG mailing list, if there will be an initiative to open other mailing lists and platforms as well, and leave it to the community to communicate at the platforms they would like to.
However, my call would be to keep the understanding of NOG well, when making the communication, as it is definitely a place for a discussion of matters relating to routing, network security, peering and interconnection, and other operational Internet issues and not political ones.
Sincerely,
Vahan On 2022-03-16 15:22, Alex Semenyaka wrote:
Hi Aleksi!
I am 100% sure that we in Ukraine will have a normal face-to-face NOG meeting right after the war.
But regional coordination is also a thing, so the idea of CENOG looks really promising to me. Not as a separate big shiny NOG (at least, at the beginning), but exactly as a coordination instrument.
On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 8:05 AM Aleksi Suhonen enog-2022@ssd.axu.tm wrote:
Hello,
On 10/03/2022 22:14, Alex Semenyaka wrote:
There is UANOG. It never gathered as a face-to-face meeting, but
it is
alive as a mailing list during like last 20 years... I do believe that it can be augmented with meetings, why not?
While I'm not Ukrainian, I say you definitely should have local NOG meetings too. Nothing makes local IXPs and ISPs grow more than meeting the others in person. Regional NOG meetings have their place and purpose, but local NOGs are possibly even more important.
But also I do believe that horizontal interaction between
different NOGs
in similar countries could be really profitable, and here CENOG
can help
as an umbrella. Not substitution for the national NOGs, but a
mechanism
providing their interaction between each other.
RIPE has the nog-org mailing list for this purpose:
https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/nog-org
RIPE is also organising an open house for NOG organisers in April:
https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-open-house-org...
I think the best way forward is to take a little bit of a breather, maybe a year or two, and use that time to create new connections with other NOGs and rekindle old ones.
When the dust has settled we should rethink what we want and what we
need. Maybe it's ENOG, maybe it's CENOG, maybe it's something else -
time will tell. But making hasty decisions right now doesn't seem like a good idea in the long run.
I am from Finland, why am I here?
Well ... I'm part of the team that runs NOG meetings in Finland, and
some years ago RIPE told me to join this mailing list to advertise our events. I was also planning to propose a bid to host an ENOG meeting in Finland, but it seems that's not going to happen now.
Anyway, we are planning our next nog.fi [1] meeting on Wednesday June 15th in Tampere, Finland. As our plans mature, there will be more and more information at our web site:
We live in uncertain times, and there are still so many factors that can force us to cancel the event, but I'm trying not to dwell on that.
Best Regards,
-- Aleksi Suhonen
() ascii ribbon campaign /\ support plain text e-mail
discuss mailing list discuss@enog.org https://lists.enog.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
--
Alex Semenyaka
Links:
[1] http://nog.fi _______________________________________________ discuss mailing list discuss@enog.org https://lists.enog.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Hi Vahan, all,
VH> So I would suggest to keep the ENOG mailing list, if there will be an VH> initiative to open other mailing lists and platforms as well, and leave VH> it to the community to communicate at the platforms they would like to.
Seriously, keep open the mailing list with less than 10 unique message per year?
The community, if it's existing, will always find a way to communicate. If there is no communication - the communication tool is useless. Or probably there is no such community.
-- Kind regards, Sergey Myasoedov
Wednesday, March 16, 2022, 12:41:49, you wrote:
VH> Hi, Aleks and Aleksi and all!
VH> At the time of changes, it is very important to keep communication VH> alive, especially when we see so many new threats for the networks each VH> day.
VH> We need to keep in mind that NOG is an "informal forum that bring VH> together network operators, network engineers and other technical VH> professionals to discuss matters relating to routing, network security, VH> peering and interconnection, and other operational Internet issues". If VH> we keep this principle, it can be called CENOG, ENOG or any other way, VH> if we bring there politics-it will not work in any way.
VH> ENOG was providing an opportunity to discuss the abovementioned matters VH> for mainly Russian speaking audience from many countries in Eurasian VH> region (what is Eurasia-formally it is even larger, than RIPE NCC region VH> is). Well, most of the participants were from Russia, a lot of from VH> Ukraine, but also people from Czech Republic, Central Asia, Caucasus, VH> Eastern and Western Europe were participating, putting their bits there.
VH> So I would suggest to keep the ENOG mailing list, if there will be an VH> initiative to open other mailing lists and platforms as well, and leave VH> it to the community to communicate at the platforms they would like to.
VH> However, my call would be to keep the understanding of NOG well, when VH> making the communication, as it is definitely a place for a discussion VH> of matters relating to routing, network security, peering and VH> interconnection, and other operational Internet issues and not political VH> ones.
VH> Sincerely,
VH> Vahan VH> On 2022-03-16 15:22, Alex Semenyaka wrote:
Hi Aleksi!
I am 100% sure that we in Ukraine will have a normal face-to-face NOG meeting right after the war.
But regional coordination is also a thing, so the idea of CENOG looks really promising to me. Not as a separate big shiny NOG (at least, at the beginning), but exactly as a coordination instrument.
On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 8:05 AM Aleksi Suhonen enog-2022@ssd.axu.tm wrote:
Hello,
On 10/03/2022 22:14, Alex Semenyaka wrote:
There is UANOG. It never gathered as a face-to-face meeting, but
it is
alive as a mailing list during like last 20 years... I do believe that it can be augmented with meetings, why not?
While I'm not Ukrainian, I say you definitely should have local NOG meetings too. Nothing makes local IXPs and ISPs grow more than meeting the others in person. Regional NOG meetings have their place and purpose, but local NOGs are possibly even more important.
But also I do believe that horizontal interaction between
different NOGs
in similar countries could be really profitable, and here CENOG
can help
as an umbrella. Not substitution for the national NOGs, but a
mechanism
providing their interaction between each other.
RIPE has the nog-org mailing list for this purpose:
https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/nog-org
RIPE is also organising an open house for NOG organisers in April:
https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-open-house-org...
I think the best way forward is to take a little bit of a breather, maybe a year or two, and use that time to create new connections with other NOGs and rekindle old ones.
When the dust has settled we should rethink what we want and what we
need. Maybe it's ENOG, maybe it's CENOG, maybe it's something else -
time will tell. But making hasty decisions right now doesn't seem like a good idea in the long run.
I am from Finland, why am I here?
Well ... I'm part of the team that runs NOG meetings in Finland, and
some years ago RIPE told me to join this mailing list to advertise our events. I was also planning to propose a bid to host an ENOG meeting in Finland, but it seems that's not going to happen now.
Anyway, we are planning our next nog.fi [1] meeting on Wednesday June 15th in Tampere, Finland. As our plans mature, there will be more and more information at our web site:
We live in uncertain times, and there are still so many factors that can force us to cancel the event, but I'm trying not to dwell on that.
Best Regards,
-- Aleksi Suhonen
() ascii ribbon campaign /\ support plain text e-mail
discuss mailing list discuss@enog.org https://lists.enog.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
--
Alex Semenyaka
Links:
[1] http://nog.fi _______________________________________________ discuss mailing list discuss@enog.org https://lists.enog.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Hi, Sergey!
I assume many of them (community members) are following the advice that Aleksi Suhonen has provided-some pause in the communication to rethink.
And I personally would welcome any way of the communication on the matters that should be priorities for NOGs-should it be ENOG, CENOG or any other.
Keeping mailing lists or other channels of communication is better, than to have no channel of it, let's have better options, before closing existing ones.
Vahan
On 2022-03-16 17:40, Sergey Myasoedov wrote:
Hi Vahan, all,
VH> So I would suggest to keep the ENOG mailing list, if there will be an VH> initiative to open other mailing lists and platforms as well, and leave VH> it to the community to communicate at the platforms they would like to.
Seriously, keep open the mailing list with less than 10 unique message per year?
The community, if it's existing, will always find a way to communicate. If there is no communication - the communication tool is useless. Or probably there is no such community.
-- Kind regards, Sergey Myasoedov
Wednesday, March 16, 2022, 12:41:49, you wrote:
VH> Hi, Aleks and Aleksi and all!
VH> At the time of changes, it is very important to keep communication VH> alive, especially when we see so many new threats for the networks each VH> day.
VH> We need to keep in mind that NOG is an "informal forum that bring VH> together network operators, network engineers and other technical VH> professionals to discuss matters relating to routing, network security, VH> peering and interconnection, and other operational Internet issues". If VH> we keep this principle, it can be called CENOG, ENOG or any other way, VH> if we bring there politics-it will not work in any way.
VH> ENOG was providing an opportunity to discuss the abovementioned matters VH> for mainly Russian speaking audience from many countries in Eurasian VH> region (what is Eurasia-formally it is even larger, than RIPE NCC region VH> is). Well, most of the participants were from Russia, a lot of from VH> Ukraine, but also people from Czech Republic, Central Asia, Caucasus, VH> Eastern and Western Europe were participating, putting their bits there.
VH> So I would suggest to keep the ENOG mailing list, if there will be an VH> initiative to open other mailing lists and platforms as well, and leave VH> it to the community to communicate at the platforms they would like to.
VH> However, my call would be to keep the understanding of NOG well, when VH> making the communication, as it is definitely a place for a discussion VH> of matters relating to routing, network security, peering and VH> interconnection, and other operational Internet issues and not political VH> ones.
VH> Sincerely,
VH> Vahan VH> On 2022-03-16 15:22, Alex Semenyaka wrote:
Hi Aleksi!
I am 100% sure that we in Ukraine will have a normal face-to-face NOG meeting right after the war.
But regional coordination is also a thing, so the idea of CENOG looks really promising to me. Not as a separate big shiny NOG (at least, at the beginning), but exactly as a coordination instrument.
On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 8:05 AM Aleksi Suhonen enog-2022@ssd.axu.tm wrote:
Hello,
On 10/03/2022 22:14, Alex Semenyaka wrote:
There is UANOG. It never gathered as a face-to-face meeting, but
it is
alive as a mailing list during like last 20 years... I do believe that it can be augmented with meetings, why not?
While I'm not Ukrainian, I say you definitely should have local NOG meetings too. Nothing makes local IXPs and ISPs grow more than meeting the others in person. Regional NOG meetings have their place and purpose, but local NOGs are possibly even more important.
But also I do believe that horizontal interaction between
different NOGs
in similar countries could be really profitable, and here CENOG
can help
as an umbrella. Not substitution for the national NOGs, but a
mechanism
providing their interaction between each other.
RIPE has the nog-org mailing list for this purpose:
https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/nog-org
RIPE is also organising an open house for NOG organisers in April:
https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-open-house-org...
I think the best way forward is to take a little bit of a breather, maybe a year or two, and use that time to create new connections with other NOGs and rekindle old ones.
When the dust has settled we should rethink what we want and what we
need. Maybe it's ENOG, maybe it's CENOG, maybe it's something else -
time will tell. But making hasty decisions right now doesn't seem like a good idea in the long run.
I am from Finland, why am I here?
Well ... I'm part of the team that runs NOG meetings in Finland, and
some years ago RIPE told me to join this mailing list to advertise our events. I was also planning to propose a bid to host an ENOG meeting in Finland, but it seems that's not going to happen now.
Anyway, we are planning our next nog.fi [1] meeting on Wednesday June 15th in Tampere, Finland. As our plans mature, there will be more and more information at our web site:
We live in uncertain times, and there are still so many factors that can force us to cancel the event, but I'm trying not to dwell on that.
Best Regards,
-- Aleksi Suhonen
() ascii ribbon campaign /\ support plain text e-mail
discuss mailing list discuss@enog.org https://lists.enog.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
--
Alex Semenyaka
Links:
[1] http://nog.fi _______________________________________________ discuss mailing list discuss@enog.org https://lists.enog.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Hi Vahan and everybody.
16.03.2022 13:41, Vahan Hovsepyan wrote:
At the time of changes, it is very important to keep communication alive, especially when we see so many new threats for the networks each day.
Communication _is_ important; I know it as a human being, as an Internet user from early 1990s (and BITNET user since mid-1980s), as a professional interpreter and translator for the last 27 years, etc. _However_, in the same way as there is "a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing", there are times to keep and develop communication, and times to refrain from communication with some parties.
It is not about politics as such; it is about fundamental human things. Russia has recently demonstrated that it does not care about those things. It has demonstrated as a country that it does not want to be a part of the global community (even though many of its citizens disagree with that position). Therefore, while the Internet is a global communication platform of great value, there are limits to any communication, in terms of using this platform, discussing it, developing it, etc.
I clearly understand that it would be unrealistic to expect any action whereby Russian entities would be deprived of all their IPv4 and IPv6 blocks, routing from and to Russian ASs would be blocked, etc. However, if it would happen, I would welcome it.
Sapienti sat.
Hi, Maksym and all!
I might agree or disagree with your position on what you call fundamental human things, we can have a dispute on this matters and have a complete understanding, develop activities and actions, but, in my understanding, NOG platform is not a place for such discussions.
ENOG definition is-ENOG (Eurasia Network Operators Group) is the forum where technology experts from Eastern Europe, Caucasus and Central Asia gather to discuss core operational issues and share ideas in evolving the Internet in the region.
MENOG definition is-The Middle East Network Operators Group Meeting and Peering Forum (MENOG) offers a platform for key Internet builders in the region to learn from their peers and other leaders in the Internet community from around the world.
Should the technical community discuss what is happening now in Ukraine AND other countries of RIPE NCC service region, call for actions, activities, have a position papers, etc? Definitely yes, we are humans and citizens apart of everything, we feel the pain and each of us has his own political views. But this, I believe, should not be at the platforms, called to be the place for technical discussions.
With all the respect,
Vahan
As it is On 2022-03-16 17:46, Maksym Kozub wrote:
Hi Vahan and everybody.
16.03.2022 13:41, Vahan Hovsepyan wrote:
At the time of changes, it is very important to keep communication alive, especially when we see so many new threats for the networks each day.
Communication _is_ important; I know it as a human being, as an Internet user from early 1990s (and BITNET user since mid-1980s), as a professional interpreter and translator for the last 27 years, etc. _However_, in the same way as there is "a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing", there are times to keep and develop communication, and times to refrain from communication with some parties.
It is not about politics as such; it is about fundamental human things. Russia has recently demonstrated that it does not care about those things. It has demonstrated as a country that it does not want to be a part of the global community (even though many of its citizens disagree with that position). Therefore, while the Internet is a global communication platform of great value, there are limits to any communication, in terms of using this platform, discussing it, developing it, etc.
I clearly understand that it would be unrealistic to expect any action whereby Russian entities would be deprived of all their IPv4 and IPv6 blocks, routing from and to Russian ASs would be blocked, etc. However, if it would happen, I would welcome it.
Sapienti sat.
On 16 Mar 2022, at 17:27, Vahan Hovsepyan vhovsepyan@ripe.net wrote:
Hi, Maksym and all!
Hi Vahan, all
technical discussions, communication, contacts don't live in the vacuum. They are based on the people communication. I think that if you prepare to wait until the communications in the former ENOG region will come back you have to live veeeery long.
I might agree or disagree with your position on what you call fundamental human things, we can have a dispute on this matters and have a complete understanding, develop activities and actions, but, in my understanding, NOG platform is not a place for such discussions.
ENOG definition is-ENOG (Eurasia Network Operators Group) is the forum where technology experts from Eastern Europe, Caucasus and Central Asia gather to discuss core operational issues and share ideas in evolving the Internet in the region.
MENOG definition is-The Middle East Network Operators Group Meeting and Peering Forum (MENOG) offers a platform for key Internet builders in the region to learn from their peers and other leaders in the Internet community from around the world.
Should the technical community discuss what is happening now in Ukraine AND other countries of RIPE NCC service region, call for actions, activities, have a position papers, etc? Definitely yes, we are humans and citizens apart of everything, we feel the pain and each of us has his own political views. But this, I believe, should not be at the platforms, called to be the place for technical discussions.
With all the respect,
Vahan
As it is On 2022-03-16 17:46, Maksym Kozub wrote:
Hi Vahan and everybody. 16.03.2022 13:41, Vahan Hovsepyan wrote:
At the time of changes, it is very important to keep communication alive, especially when we see so many new threats for the networks each day.
Communication _is_ important; I know it as a human being, as an Internet user from early 1990s (and BITNET user since mid-1980s), as a professional interpreter and translator for the last 27 years, etc. _However_, in the same way as there is "a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing", there are times to keep and develop communication, and times to refrain from communication with some parties. It is not about politics as such; it is about fundamental human things. Russia has recently demonstrated that it does not care about those things. It has demonstrated as a country that it does not want to be a part of the global community (even though many of its citizens disagree with that position). Therefore, while the Internet is a global communication platform of great value, there are limits to any communication, in terms of using this platform, discussing it, developing it, etc. I clearly understand that it would be unrealistic to expect any action whereby Russian entities would be deprived of all their IPv4 and IPv6 blocks, routing from and to Russian ASs would be blocked, etc. However, if it would happen, I would welcome it. Sapienti sat.
-- Sincerely,
Vahan Hovsepyan External Relations Officer Central Asia and Caucasus RIPE NCC Tel.+374 94 258900 E-mail: vhovsepyan@ripe.net
discuss mailing list discuss@enog.org https://lists.enog.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
-- Taras Heichenko tasic@academ.kiev.ua
Dear Vahan,
We must separate words and messages from facts and reality. Here, the words and the messages: ENOG (Eurasia Network Operators Group) is the forum where technology experts from Eastern Europe, Caucasus and Central Asia. The facts and the reality: despite all the regional claims ENOG always was Russian speaking, exUSSR oriented forum. So, by closing ENOG we just accept the reality.
Best withes, Maksym Tulyuk On 16 Mar 2022, 16:28 +0100, Vahan Hovsepyan vhovsepyan@ripe.net, wrote:
Hi, Maksym and all!
I might agree or disagree with your position on what you call fundamental human things, we can have a dispute on this matters and have a complete understanding, develop activities and actions, but, in my understanding, NOG platform is not a place for such discussions.
ENOG definition is-ENOG (Eurasia Network Operators Group) is the forum where technology experts from Eastern Europe, Caucasus and Central Asia gather to discuss core operational issues and share ideas in evolving the Internet in the region.
MENOG definition is-The Middle East Network Operators Group Meeting and Peering Forum (MENOG) offers a platform for key Internet builders in the region to learn from their peers and other leaders in the Internet community from around the world.
Should the technical community discuss what is happening now in Ukraine AND other countries of RIPE NCC service region, call for actions, activities, have a position papers, etc? Definitely yes, we are humans and citizens apart of everything, we feel the pain and each of us has his own political views. But this, I believe, should not be at the platforms, called to be the place for technical discussions.
With all the respect,
Vahan
As it is On 2022-03-16 17:46, Maksym Kozub wrote:
Hi Vahan and everybody.
16.03.2022 13:41, Vahan Hovsepyan wrote:
At the time of changes, it is very important to keep communication alive, especially when we see so many new threats for the networks each day.
Communication _is_ important; I know it as a human being, as an Internet user from early 1990s (and BITNET user since mid-1980s), as a professional interpreter and translator for the last 27 years, etc. _However_, in the same way as there is "a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing", there are times to keep and develop communication, and times to refrain from communication with some parties.
It is not about politics as such; it is about fundamental human things. Russia has recently demonstrated that it does not care about those things. It has demonstrated as a country that it does not want to be a part of the global community (even though many of its citizens disagree with that position). Therefore, while the Internet is a global communication platform of great value, there are limits to any communication, in terms of using this platform, discussing it, developing it, etc.
I clearly understand that it would be unrealistic to expect any action whereby Russian entities would be deprived of all their IPv4 and IPv6 blocks, routing from and to Russian ASs would be blocked, etc. However, if it would happen, I would welcome it.
Sapienti sat.
-- Sincerely,
Vahan Hovsepyan External Relations Officer Central Asia and Caucasus RIPE NCC Tel.+374 94 258900 E-mail: vhovsepyan@ripe.net
discuss mailing list discuss@enog.org https://lists.enog.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
participants (10)
-
Aleksi Suhonen -
Alex Semenyaka -
Bill Woodcock -
Dmitry Kohmanyuk -
Maksym Kozub -
Maksym Tulyuk -
Oksana Prykhodko -
Sergey Myasoedov -
Taras Heichenko -
Vahan Hovsepyan